Aug 11, 2010
When super friends initially emerged as a deck, I instantly picked it up. It’s no surprise that the card advantage and sheer power of the planeswalker cards lead to decisive victories when utilized together. I have tried a bunch of different lists since Laskin and Flores put their versions of RUW walkers to the public, some better than others. BigHeadJoe from the Yo! Mtg Taps! podcast and I had been brewing up different versions of this and finally I had a version sleeved up and ready to go for GPDC that abused time warp with the multiple walkers. It ended up being far too slow for the meta that was shaping up, and I ended up switching to Monster Truck Jund for that event. I was convinced that in a Vengevine heavy environment fueled by Lotus Cobra, walkers were just too slow. Blightning was still running rampant, and there were no early counters worth running. That was then. M11 is here, and has brought us a wonderful new metagame. Gone are the days where Boros and Allies are potential matchups that needed to be addressed. We control players received many wonderful gifts in M11. Chief among them being of course is Mana Leak. The metagame has been forever changed by the reintroduction of this wonderful card. This is now.
I had been playing Conley’s Abyssal Esper list pre m11, and updated it by adding mana leak, which was still very powerful. I felt like I needed to do more. I took a look at the winning decks from most of the nationals, and started to piece together a bunch of the key highlights: Valakut needed to be a winnable match, Vengevine and Fauna Shaman are powerful, and the Titans are the real deal. There was one really new card that came out of the national tournaments, and that was Destructive Force. The force decks essentially drop a Titan and then use the force to eliminate the opposing board position while maintaining yours. The force decks that have been out to date have been very inconsistent, as it doesn’t take long for the meta to adjust to one card strategies (some longer than others, but I’ll get to that). I really liked what Destructive Force was capable of doing. It assaults the opposition in a way that no other decks are capable of doing right now. A resolved force essentially decimates most of the decks in standard right now. Jund just rolls over, the mono color decks like red and vampires fall too far behind, and unless Bant or Naya have a Knight of the Reliquary on board, it’s almost impossible to catch up. The solution was to use force in a deck that was designed to recover from it, while not necessarily relying on it. I realized that a planeswalker strategy would be entirely exempt from the effects of the force, and resolving a force with an active walker would almost always spell the end for the opponent. With that in mind, I came up with this list:
Super Force
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I borrowed the Sun Titan tech from the control master himself, (if you have to ask, you don’t need to know) and that just kicked the deck into overdrive. The Titan is used to recur fetches as pseudo ramp, Tectonic Edge to handle manlands and maintain advantage, Wall of Omens to ensure blockers and card draw, Jace Beleren to guarantee the Jace war win, and the underestimated all star of the deck, Wall of Denial.
Let’s look quickly at the three tenets of new standard: Valakut needs to be winnable. Vengevine and Fauna Shaman need to be
handled, and Titans need to be considered. Valakut is a dead match to Leyline of Sanctity. It was only in the Spanish nationals lists that back to nature became present in Valakut sideboards. My advice to any W/x players right now, put at least 3 of these in yourboards right now. Do it. You’ll thank me later. Vengevine and most of the Titans can’t beat Wall of Denial. Few creatures can actually. The fact that it comes back with the Sun Titan makes it almost unfair. Shamans and midrange decks that take advantage of them are stone cold to a resolved force, so long as you can deal with a Knight of the Reliquary.
I took this to FNM this past week, and took it to a flawless finish. The only card that really demolishes this deck is All is Dust. If your opponent is running this in multiples, your day will end quickly. Everything else is totally winnable, and the surprise factor of the Destructive Force will pull out more games than you expect. This is a nice long article for my first entry to 60cards.com, so I will wrap this one up for now. Please leave comments and I will be happy to discuss any match ups and sideboarding there. For my next entry, expect a new list that keeps smacking my butt each time I face it. Know your enemy they say.
Thanks for reading!
AWESOME first article. HIGH FIVE!
Hey Brotha!
Interesting deck. Just curious why only 3 Everflowing Chalice. With such a big spell is seems "ramp-light". What are you thoughts on this observation?
PS -Congrats your first article. I look forward to reading more!
Thanks for the comments guys.
Jonathan, so many good things to cram in the deck. I had a choice of the 26th land or the 4th chalice. I suppose it is a matter of preference.
NICE!!! From someone who adored the old Wildfire deck from ca. 1999, Destructive Force just looks like SO much fun. This not only looks like a solid build, but also provides a great starting point for what seems to be a match made in heaven, Planeswalkers + Destructive Force.
My only hesitation is in running three colors, none of which are green. I had a really rough time with Super Friends back when it first debuted, and nothing is as frustrating to me than not being able to play my game due to mana screw/flood. Of course, this is just personal preference, and says nothing about the viability of your manabase specifically.
GREAT JOB on your first article! Looking forward to reading your stuff every week :)
~Joey
Oh yeah, and I think your weekly column should be called "Scotty Mac Attack!" (cribbed from Jon Medina's retweet of this article on Twitter). So this article would be entitled "Scotty Mac Attack! — Super Force"
Nice article and decklist. It looks fun and efficient. Unfortunately it goes straight to the "I'll never be able to afford it" folder.
Why Condemn over Path mainboard? I still like path as the primary removal as it can also be used as ramp.
Great article for your first time. As far as not being able to afford it. Why not. It's only plating three mindsculptor. Lol. Can't wait to see it in action
Thanks for the feedback! I went against path main because of the ramp factor. Maindeck I'm more concerned with protecting my walkers pre force. Post force, path giving them land is counterproductive. I see the idea about using it as positive ramp though, but I have brought back wall of omens with sun Titan as often as I have little jace and wall of denial. Ajani lends himself to mana denial strategy. In the spirit of Floresian deck building I wanted to ensure I created a deck that "is not at odds with itself" in terms of strategy. Path in the maindeck seems to create this problem. The nod to it as the premium removal when needed I given by it's place in the board.
Hope
Scotty!!! You have always been a required tutor when I'm devising a new deck. Keep the articles flowing... ever, flowing... HAHAHA!!
I will run this friday and post results. Cheers to you.
This looks like a solid list. I would like to run it at FNM this week. Could you explain or email me a short strategy on the U/W and Titan ramp matchups, because I'm unsure about how to play the deck against them, especially the U/W matchup. Thanks in advance,
Dan
Thanks to all of those running this over the weekend. I wish you all great success for Game Day!
I have been trying paths over condemns in the main lately and they have been good. I have used them more regularly as block and ramp tools, however. I replaced them in the board with 2 more bolts. I have found them to be extremely valuable when they were needed, and there is no shortage of red mana in practical experience.
@danO - the titan matchup against UW is essentially the same as it ever was. a control matchup where you have the advantage of sticking ajani. if you do that and stay out of o-rings, you should win. Those builds often forego days post board, so the wall of denial will be key. you should be able to deal with a jace war, and use gideons to force creature trades. attacking with him in those matches is good, as it will force removal and mana use. also, i wouldn't side out the forces here. I would likely pull the days, but the force is a must counter trump for you much like ajani. you also have lightning bolt to tip his titan or walkers over the edge.
good luck!
I've been completely undecided as to what to play for UK Nats, yo-yoing around various decks. I love playing control, but I haven't been very enjoying the current UW lists I've found. So I've been mulling over ideas in my head - could I update my beloved Planeswalkers deck to deal with Fauna Shaman Vengevine decks which I expect to be everywhere? I've been thinking of trying out Lightning Bolt and Wall of Denial main, and seeing if Sun Titan has a home, but I haven't had chance to try out these things.
So today I'm listing to Yo! MTGtaps podcast while I'm working, and I follow the link to here. Wow! I am *so* happy right now, I can't wait to get home and try out your list (with your paths main). Thank you :-D
How are the Everflowing Chalices working out? In my various incarnations of Planeswalkers over the PTQ season I haven't tried them out. I can see the advantage that the stick around post-Destructive Force, how important have they been in practice?
Thanks again,
Laura
AWESOME first article. HIGH FIVE!
I'll be playing this tonight. If you have a chance, could you talk a little more about your decision to switch to paths over condemn. i could see potentially switching to Oust, but path seems bad, for the reasons you mentioned in your main article. Ramping your opponent pre-force seems so counter productive, as their creatures will likely die to the force anyway. I've tested the deck a lot with either condemn and oust last few days, with minimal difference. I can see wanting the paths for vengevines, but between wall of denail, gideon, and O-ring(sb) not much of an issue either.
Oust is better against fauna shaman, because it can hit a creature that isn't attacking, and the sorcery speed isn't really an issue against a non-haster, while condemn is better against RDW and vengevine In fact, i even considered cutting path from the board for 2 kor firewalkers. your firewalkers come back from titan, survive a force, and can hold down the board post force against a deck with ANY red in it, as a way to protect your walker.
ok folks... looks like its 4 bolts for sure main. the paths in the board. this seems to be getting me the best reach. I actually just played in a pseudo mirror match on modo. I took it down, and the reason for it was elspeth actually. In the control mirror she's crazy of course. Chandra Nalaar was played against me, which doesn't seem to be too bad. I think we want to be doing better things with our mana at that level in this build, but it merits closer analysis. pyromancer's ascension is a tough match. I was able to curve out really early in the first match I played, as he didn't respect my chalices or sun titan. i promptly followed the t5 titan with a t6 force to put him out of the game. the other matches he got wise, and it was a long boring game which the inevitability of the ascension took down. wondering if perhaps the paths could simply become a full set of purges. seems great against the red based aggro, and it nukes the ascension as well as black. I'm going to try this and see what happens.
@laura - thanks for the kind feedback! hope the list performs for you as it has been for me. I was getting a lot of testing done with this list, and in pre force incarnations, i used time warp. the chalices really proved their worth early in the testing, as often the chalice will stick if you only run it out for one or two if the opponent is tapped out. the fact that it DOES stick around is huge, and there are two further points to consider: 1. We need a way to maintain tempo vs base green decks. 2. the sun titan in concert with the chalices gives us amazing recovery from the force.
additionally, since the return of mana leak, the format is generally slower than it used to be. chalice gives us value on our otherwise early turns.
trying 4 bolts main and 4 purges in the board over paths. the wall of denials really DO hold off the vines really well.
Played this last night. I had some awkward matchups, and finished 3-2. I played Mono White Control, beat it handliy. Planeswalkers were way too much for that deck to handle.
2nd round faced grixis control, lost this matchup, to my opponent casting all 3 cruel ultimatums in his deck both game 1 and 2. Each time he got his 3rd one to resolve.
round 3, i played a jund list, that couldn't beat wall of denial, fairly weak list.
Round 4, I matched up against naya shaman, and won easily. i went with oust in my sideboard rather than path, and REALLY liked it in this matchup. Ousting a fauna is extremely effective.
round 5 I lost to a valakut deck due to some really bad mulligans. The game i kept 7 cards i beat it handily, but i was unable to stick a planeswalker any of the other games, never playing a 4th land.
I played the majority of the list on friday. I ended up going 3-1. I liked the list alot.
Round 1 - MonoRed
The 1st game got scary when I was at 2 life and he could topdeck burn for the win, but a jumped gideon took him down. Game 2, started with the white leyline in hand, and he was never in it.
Round 2 - Elves
Played a Mono green elves list. Game 1 he gets me down to two life, after I survive an overrun, thanks to Ajani's lifegain. I eventually DForce and slowly get him after i killed like 7 of his guys. Game 2 he runs me over quickly with a bunch of pumped elves from the Joraga lord. Game 3 He tries to go for an all out attack, so he dumps his hand. I finally dray a Day of Judgement, wrath his board, and the Planeswalkers clean up.
Round 3 - Pyromancer's Ascension
This match is stupidly difficult, they only really have 2 cards you care about, one being pyromancer, the other being the second call to mind. Game 1 went long and He went off before gideon ate him alive. Game 2 I boarded in everything almost. He went for the Kiln fiend plan for g2 and i killed one. We fought over his ascension, and he got it to stick, then i tried to pop it like 3 times with celestial purge and o ring, but he still out countered me. There was a turn where I should have Dforced, he had 1 card in hand, and bluffed the counter so well, I bought it. He proceded to topdeck Time Warp, then I negated on of the copies, and on his second turn, topdecked call to mind. That was that.
Round 4 - Mono White Knights
This match was really annoying, and I almost lost due to terrible play mistakes. Game one, I draw no removal and get run over by a bunch of the leveler knights. Game two I finally stabilize and Dforce his board. He only bins a few knights, because he had that new M11 knight out, and I explained he needed to kill everyone after they lost the protection. Game three was basically the same, I stop his elspeth, and then proceed to almost throw the game away. I swung with colonade then played wrath. :( then finally I dForced and slowly beat him to death with a colonade while Jace kept him fatesealed.
I had a great time with the deck, and I think that the third Dforce might be a bit much, but thats all I really saw. For my matchups, I only saw DoJ twice, when I would liked to have seen it more. The white Leyline was supreemely good when I got to use it in the red and pyro matches. And wall of denial is awesome. This deck Might actually want a 3rd sun titan or a single blue or red titan as well, since they basically win the game if you can t6 titan t7 force.
Had fun and hope this report helps.